Freedom of speech and the Canadian Human Rights Commission

All this talk about freedom of speech reminded me of a story that had slipped my mind.  I caught wind of it on The London Fog just over a month ago and even spoke briefly to Mike (from the Fog) about it when I ran into him at a show.

A conservative forum site called FreeDominion.ca recieved a letter from an officer of the Canadian Human Rights Commission.  Here's the text:

July 16, 2007

File 2006057

Ms. Connie Wilkins
c/o Free Dominion
2033 Unity Rd.
Kingston, ON
K0H 1M0

Dear Ms. Wilkins:

I am the investigator designated under Part III of the Canadian Human Rights Act to investigate the complaint of Ms. [name omitted at this time] against Free Dominion. As the investigator, it is my responsibility to gather the evidence in relation to the complainant's allegations and, once the investigation is complete, to report on my findings to the Members of the Commission.

The report will include a recommendation for the disposition of the complaint. I can recommend that a conciliator be appointed, if the evidence supports the allegations in the complaint, or that the complaint be dismissed, if the allegations are not supported by the evidence. I can also recommend to the Commission that a settlement be approved if the parties reach an agreement during the course of the investigation.

I am currently awaiting your full response to the allegations which is due on 18 July 2007.

I would like to draw your attention to section 48 of the Canadian Human Rights Act which allows the parties to settle a complaint in the course of investigation. I would be pleased to discuss the possibility of a settlement with you or your representative at any time.

You can reach me at the address and telephone number indicated at the bottom of the first page of this letter. My direct line is 999-999-9999 and my email address is OfficersName@chrc-ccdp.ca. Please note that there are security and confidentiality risks in sending information by email.

Yours Sincerely,

Officer's Name
Investigator 

 (or read it on their site)

Pay close attention to the dates.  The letter was send on July 16th, and the response was due on July 18th.  This is the day that Ms. Wilkins of FreeDominion.ca recieved the letter.

This is all they got.  They were not told what content on their site had been complained about, or the identity of the complainant.  Essentially, they were expected to respond immediately (without time to speak to a lawyer first) and without knowing what they were being accused of.

Keep in mind that FreeDominion is a forum site.  It's got a lot of users saying all kinds of things.

A few days later, on July 23rd, the offending comments were revealed.   Most of them were written by a man named Bill Whatcott.  I don't agree with the comments, in fact I think they're terribly ignorant and backwards.  But here's what caused the complaint: 

03/09/06 "To see the original hitting Edmonton mailboxes tonight. (warning disturbing but necessary photo) http://takebackcanada.com/whatcott.html "

04/24/06 "I can't figure out why the homosexuals I ran into are on the side of the Muslims. After all, Muslims who practice Sharia law tend to advocate beheading homosexuals."

03/09/06 "I defy Islamic censorship and speak about what I believe is the truth about violent Islamism and its threat to religious liberty in Canada."

These she added with no accreditation, but she doesn't seem to be attributing them to Whatcott:

"How many of us pay nothing but lip service to the Muslim threat here in Canada?"
"Probably everyone want to jail a Muslim."
"I have to ask why we are importing them here?"
"Islamic fundamentalism and its threat to Canada's religious and civil liberties."

Like I said, I completely disagree with these comments.  But I do think that people should have the right to write them.  If I had it my way, we wouldn't have to delete this kind of stuff on this site.  We could just counter it, which should be as easy as knocking over a house of cards.  But we do have a policy about deleing hate propaganda because it's the law, and I don't think we really need to stick our necks out to defend hate mongerers when there are bigger battles to fight.

Beyond this site however, should people be allowed to say this kind of stuff in Canada?   Yes, I think they should.

For starters, I don't think censorship is an effective tool against hate.  It puts people on the defensive, and gives others the impression that the haters are the under dogs unfairly persecuted by big government. 

If hate propaganda is censored, it's that much more difficult to argue against it.  We, the non-haters, don't stand a chance at changing the minds of the haters if we can't converse with them.  

There's also the undecided.  They should have access to all of the opinions available as they are constucting their own.  Censoring hate material isn't going to be as effective as providing clear, reasonable arguments against it.  Personally, I want people to disagree with hateful, ignorant comments like the ones above.  I think that when compared side by side, the arguments based on hate and ignorance will always lose.

The biggest issue however, is the slippery slope.  I'm worried that by letting the government censor one kind of expression, it'll be easier for the government to start censoring others.  I'm worried that it will become against the law to advocate things like general strikes, revolt and civil disobediance.  Many of the ideas and values that I express regularly are very unpopular.  I'd rather not go to jail for them if it can be helped.

On that note, a quote from Noam Chomsky is in order:

Among people who have learned something from the 18th century (say, Voltaire) it is a truism, hardly deserving discussion, that the defense of the right of free expression is not restricted to ideas one approves of, and that it is precisely in the case of ideas found most offensive that these rights must be most vigorously defended.

You can read the entire essay here: Some Elementary Comments on the Rights of Freedom of Expression.  He wrote it after defending the rights of a French professor who got convicted for denying the Holocaust.  My favourite part was when he made fun of the Communist Party.  It sums up a lot of what I'm trying to say much more eloquently than I can at this hour.

And then of course, there's the famous quote that is attributed to Voltaire.  He didn't actually say it, but it's a good one: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." 

As far as FreeDominion.ca goes, the complaint was withdrawn.

 

Jeremy 

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Jeff P.'s picture

WTF?

I understand what you are doing here Jer. You are using an event that has happened recently to establish an argument for free speech. The ideas published on that site were a blatant example of hate material. What about the not so obvious hate material? Please consider a few things that you have also accomplished with this post:

1) You have promoted the London Fog, a hateful website. They hate poor people and anyone else who does not 'wake up to the fact' that white male priviledge is an illusion.  They also believe that every person has an equal opportunity in this country. They also believe that war mongering is justified as long as it is against Muslims. They also believe that current environmental destruction is a hoax and that our ecosystem is just fine (they promote exponential increases in consumption because It is good for our economy)...WTF?

2) You have made it seem you are buddies with Mike from that hateful website. Are you?  WTF?

3) You have promoted FreeDominon, a massive online hate fest... WTF?

4) We are all racists in one form or another. If we don't address that in ourselves first how can we possibly expect racists, like the one's outlined in your article, to confront their hateful ideas. Your outlined examples of online racism and arguments that follow, look to me like tokenism. WTF?

Sorry Jer. You really need to check yourself on this one. Your reasoning behind this  post confuses the shit out of me. What was your intention with this? Are you advocating libertarian ideals? Are you voting for the Freedom Party in October? 

Seriously Jeremy, What The Fuck?

Jeff 

PS - Trev, let Jer respond for himself. 

 

http://radicalblogs.org/lpps

Jeremy McNaughton's picture

why all the swearing?

Do you really need to swear at me?

To answer your questions:

1. You say I promoted the London Fog.  I would say that I mentioned it and credited it for where I first heard about the story.  Personally, I'm willing to let people make their own minds up about that site.  I have faith that most people will see it for what it is.

2.  That's the only time I've spoken to Mike from the Fog.  I started the conversation by apologizing for calling him an idiot at the Indymedia Unplugged event.  I would probably talk to him again if I saw him around, but I wouldn't say we're buddies.  In that discussion we both acknowledged the extreme differences in our political opinions.  But we did identify freedom of expression as a common ground.  Do I have to be antagonistic to him all the time just because I disagree with him most of the time?

3. FreeDominion is the meat of the story.  There wouldn't be anything to write without mentioning them.

4.  I don't really understand this question.  It seems you're simply dismissing my reasons for supporting freedom of expression without actually responding to them.

And yes, I am advocating libertarian ideals.  You can call me a libertarian socialist if you want.  And no, I'm not voting for the Freedom Party.  I'm voting for the NDP (and probably volunteering as well).  I don't agree with everything in the NDP, but they're the closest.  To me, solidarity means helping them even though I don't fully support them.

Are you opposed to freedom of expression?  I thought you called yourself an anarchist.

 

Jeremy 

Jeff P.'s picture

Aren't you a card carrying member of the IWW?

The Preamble:

The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life. 

Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.

We find that the centering of the management of industries into fewer and fewer hands makes the trade unions unable to cope with the ever growing power of the employing class. The trade unions foster a state of affairs which allows one set of workers to be pitted against another set of workers in the same industry, thereby helping defeat one another in wage wars. Moreover, the trade unions aid the employing class to mislead the workers into the belief that the working class have interests in common with their employers.

These conditions can be changed and the interest of the working class upheld only by an organization formed in such a way that all its members in any one industry, or in all industries if necessary, cease work whenever a strike or lockout is on in any department thereof, thus making an injury to one an injury to all.

Instead of the conservative motto, "A fair day's wage for a fair day's work," we must inscribe on our banner the revolutionary watchword, "Abolition of the wage system."

It is the historic mission of the working class to do away with capitalism. The army of production must be organized, not only for everyday struggle with capitalists, but also to carry on production when capitalism shall have been overthrown. By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old.

A Quick re-read of the IWW values might help clear your mind a bit Jeremy. Where exactly do you stand?

 

http://radicalblogs.org/lpps

Jeremy McNaughton's picture

I am a Wobbly

For those who don't know, what Jeff posted above is the preamble to the constitution of the Industrial Workers of the World (also known by the initials IWW and the nickname the Wobblies).  It was written in 1905, and is printed on the back of every membership card.

I don't see any lines in it that say anything about censorship.

Organizing Free Speech fights is one of the things the IWW is most famous for.  They would get themselves arrested by the hundreds for doing things like reading the U.S. constitution.  If you look at this site, there's a short video clip about this titled "The IWW and Free Speech".  The clip is taken from a documentary called "The Wobblies" which is also available on the same site.  "The Wobblies" is narrated by Roger Baldwin, one of the founders of the American Civil Liberties Union and a former Wobbly.

Mike over at the London Fog raises an interesting question.  What if one day the London Commons or London IMC got a letter from the CHRC similar to the one recieved by FreeDominion?   All it would take for this site to be in serious hot water is someone to complain to the CHRC about a pro-Palestine/anti-Israel piece being anti-semitic.  It's ridiculous, but it's widely known that criticism of Israeli state policy is often labelled as hate propaganda.

So to answer your question on where I stand, I don't trust the state to have the power to censor no matter what the issue.  For me, that's just part of basic anarchism.  It's one of the many powers that has to be taken away from the establishment.   

 

Jeremy 

Jeff P.'s picture

What is happening here Jeremy? Tell us the Truth.

I walked away from this thread with the intention of ignoring it. But, as per usual, you have blown my mind.

What the hell is going on between you and the London Fog?

"A defence of freedom of speech clearly argued by Jeremy. By the way, advocating revolt is against the law, but against criminal law, with proceedings at least subject to rules of evidence."

Your intentionally promoting and advocating the London Fog while Mike from the Fog is doing the same for you (personally). 

Mike and the London Fog represent the employing class Jeremy. They believe in capitalist exploitation of working people. This would include ALL of the founding members of the IWW. You know exactly what I'm saying here. I'm confused as to why you think you can ignore that and continue pretending to be a libertarian socialist. You should really investigate what that means. The first bloody sentence in the preamble should help you out: "The working class and the employing class have nothing in common."

You are absolutely right the LC will "never be progressive".

Sorry Jer, but this is absolutely fucked up. 

Edit____________________________________________________

I have a large bookshelf with a diverse selection of anarchist materials on it. It's in my room, just down the hall. Feel free to borrow some of it sometime. Preferably soon. I can think of at least three prominant anarchist scholars who have warned about a snap transition from having a state to not having one at all (this would include completely removing the 'all terrifying' - CHRC - you and your buddy Mike would just fine with that considering you are both white heterosexual males living in London ontario...). There are many very real considerations that need to be made when making such a large claim. I'm really not convinced you have thought about them. Or maybe you don't realize how large that claim is. Either way, a little theory typically does an anarchist good. 

http://radicalblogs.org/lpps

Jeremy McNaughton's picture

Among people who have

Among people who have learned something from the 18th century (say, Voltaire) it is a truism, hardly deserving discussion, that the defense of the right of free expression is not restricted to ideas one approves of, and that it is precisely in the case of ideas found most offensive that these rights must be most vigorously defended.

- Noam Chomsky 

I disagree with almost everything on the London Fog.  But I'm not threatened by them, because I don't think their arguments stack up.

The real story here is a government agency that has the power to censor without the same opportunity to defend oneself as in a real court.  We're just as threatened by the CHRC as the London Fog is.

And seriously, your questioning of my anarchist morals means nothing to me when you're advocating state censorship. 

 

Jeremy

 

Edit:

 

I don't intend on responding to you anymore if you're just going to be making comments about me.  If you have something to say about what I wrote, then I probably will.  Otherwise, feel free to have the final word about what a bad person I am. 

 

amelia does's picture

Grey matter

Although I understand the intellectual ideal of freedom of speech, I don't think that this website needs to allow or tolerate insults and "near-hate". I am not insinuating that the website lets me down, I am glad that it is a work in progress that is governened by several competant, intelligent and fair people, and by the users. By near-hate I mean attacks on immigrants like we have seen (in relation to Global Warming of all things). By hate I mean outright hatred and advocacy for abuse of groups and individuals like by the white supremists. I am not denying that we live in, as bell hooks has stated, a white supremist society. But hopefully this is changing.

We need to foster healthy debate to encourage educated opinions about the world. Unfortunaltey this often means tolerating individuals who enjoy attacking and dismantling arguments in ways that often do not make sense and miss the point. People often post without re-reading what they are responding too and this causes the arguement to get confused. I think that we need a new definition of freedom of speech that doesn't include tolerace of hate and personal attacks. It is a grey area, a grey matter!

Richard Wakefield's picture

Look into the mirror

I find this all rather amusing.  One socialists attacking another for defending free speech.  And another intollerant of hate groups when they themselves hate employers and conservatives.

This certainly begs a question that is still unanswered by you hard core, purist, socialists.  If you had the society you want what would you do with people who opposed your views?  What would you do to people who organized and wanted to have a capitalists system?

To invoke your system would mean suspending human rights.  The very thing you hold so dear.  You would have to suspend civil rights to prevent people from opposing your system.  Freedom would have to disappear. 

But we fear not that this will ever come to pass because 99.9% of the population would never agree with implementing your system.

If you want to have your purist values then do so with your own group.  You are free to make your own communes, share alike within that group, have no "bosses".  Go ahead, they have existed before in the 1960's.  But don't expect to force, or even coerce, everyone else into swallowing your system.  People are smarter than that.

 

No one is ahead of their time, just the rest of humanity is slow to catch on.

Jeremy McNaughton's picture

uhhh... we'd eat them

To answer your question, after the revolution there will be a giant feast where we eat the rich.  Even the vegetarians would join in.

Okay, seriously.. I'd be content to let them live as equals among everybody else.  Just with all their power and wealth stripped from them.

Also, I don't believe in some "works for everybody utopia" that should be applied across the nation.  I believe in communities doing their own thing, and in my community I believe in dismantling hierarchy and unfair power that comes from private ownership of property and the means of production.

Is it a human right to own substantially more than others?  I don't think so.  Especially when it means that most others have to work most of their lives for someone else to have a place to live.  

Just think, for example, how many fewer hours a week the average tenant would have to work if they didn't have to pay rent and simply owned their home by virtue of living there.  The landlord doesn't live in all the homes she collects rent on.  The landlord is only able to collect the rent because she is backed by the state, which will use violence to remove tenants from their homes.  Though evictions rarely come to physical violence, in my eyes the act of eviction is itself violent because of the situations and environments it forces people into.

 

Jeremy 

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