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I was just editing an article on wikipedia about Protests against the invasion of Afghanistan to add mention of the Oct. 28th demonstrations. Originally I was just going to post a question here asking who was the umbrella group for the organising... but then I got to thinking: 1) there's really no article about the October 28th day of action on Wikipedia, as there are for many other demonstrations. 2) the concept of Barnraising has been bounced around behind the scenes of the London Commons a bit. 3) I don't think Commons has been used to it's full potential as a tool for collaboration, I think Barnraising is a good step in the right direction 4) I think that the Neutral Point Of View aspect of of Wikipedia could lend itself to a useful exercise in being open to opposing points of view, which in turn could help alleviate elitism on this site. It could also be a good exercise in online consensus 6) I can't write the article on my own!
So what the hell is Barn Raising? in the context of online communities it's essentially an online collaboration that aims to strengthen the community by bringing the community members together to work on a constructive project or goal. I'd link to the article on MeatBall Wiki, but it seems to be down right now.
so, what do you all think?
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Mike.
"We only wear black, but that's just until something darker comes along..." -Anonymous Black Bloc Member.
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
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raising
I have to say, this is about as "constructive" as I get... Well, as constructive as I get on the interweb anyway.
If there's no interest for this, I hope someone can propose an alternative project to encourage participation and collaboration between members of our 'online community'. Otherwise it's back to "inane post" about pop culture and web culture for me. That, or an essay about the "Hierarchy of Ownership"
-30-
Mike.
"We only wear black, but that's just until something darker comes along..." -Anonymous Black Bloc Member.
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
The Hoff wishs peace on earth
'inane post's from you Mike, say it ain't so!
Like this perhaps,
Have you been naughty or nice!
corrections to article re: oct. 28
I would just make a small correction to the Wikipedia article. It says that in some cities there were "several hundred," but I think that this expression suggests that there were not cities that drew thousands, whereas at least in Toronto there were 2,500, hence I would say "thousands" or "a few thousand," or "two thousand and five hundred," not "several hundred."
Also, the article suggests that "changing the mission" was one of the "themes," and I think that this is misleading since, though some participants spoke about that, the event was organized on the basis of the slogan, "Troops out now!," and this was spelled out in the "Call to Action," which was endorsed by dozens of organizations across the country.
Both of these points are documented on the following web page, by the Canadian Peace Alliance, which initiated and coordinated the cross country campaign:
http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/Afghanistan.htm
the process of wikiality
Actually, the development of that passage in another article is a great example of how consensus on wikipedia works. the wording in that phrase comes directally from an article titled Canada's Role in the Invasion of Afghanistan. I saw the edit HERE highlighted in red, and to me it smaked of "POV" or "Point of View", which Wikipedia trys to avoid. So, I removed it, which was soon followed THIS edit (again in red) and THIS note on my talk page (in green). So, I explained the ratonal for my removal of his edit HERE (in green, towards the bottem) and offering a alternative wording which I also tried on the article itself. By the time I had to go to work I had recieved these responses, and we seemed to have come to a compromise that we both could live with. I don't think It's the perfect wording, but I managed to reach a consensus with someone who holds an drastically opposing view to mine.
As I mentioned above, I think alot of us do alot better when it comes to a tolerence of opposing viewpoints, which is one reason why I suggested that we ( we, as in anyone who uses the london commons and isi ntrested in such an exercise) collaberate to create a stand-alone article for the October 28th Day of Action that could withstand a serious NPOV (Neutral Point Of Vew) check.
as for the Protests against the invasion of Afghanistan article, your free to edit it as you see fit.
-30-
Mike.
"We only wear black, but that's just until something darker comes along..." -Anonymous Black Bloc Member.
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
re: editing article on Afghanistan
I don't think anyone should particularly try very hard to correct the Wikipedia article. But the fact is -- there being no neutral point of view available here -- that one point of view is that there were "hundreds" (but less than a thousand) in Toronto's Oct. 28 demo, and another point of view is that there were more than 2,000. And that's not reflected in the article, which relies only on mainstream media sources, which notoriously understate numbers at demonstrations. (I believe it was the Toronto Star which claimed initially that they had proof that there were only 37,000 people at the Metro Days of Action, even though any fool present, or even just watching on TV, could plainly see that there were certainly several times that present. After the claim was discredited, they retracted it, but offered a new fabricated number, 74,000, arrived at by doubling the first number, just adding to their embarrassment.)
Personally, I don't think it matters much whether the Wikipedia article understates the numbers on Oct. 28 in Toronto. Obviously, understating numbers of protestors is just one of the things that mainstream publications do, and I'm sure they did that when they covered the March on Washington in 1963. Movements either get built or they don't, and such publications have little or no effect. At the times when left movements have been strongest, the news media have usually been more hostile and dishonest than they are today. And the labour movement grew to great power and prominence in years when there were conscious camapigns to destroy unions carried out with great intensity by major newspapers, all to no avail. So, while agree with Chomsky-ish critiques of the media, I also think that powerful oppositional movements can and often are built in the face of lying, slander and disinformation from the "news" business.
As for Wikipedia, it is certainly interesting, and I rely on it sometimes, to update me about what people who use the internet a lot think about what something or someone is, when I don't know. But, it has to be taken with a grain of salt (like everything else), because often it includes false information, and this is not always fixable, even if there are people motivated to fix it. (For an example, see the article on People's Global Action), which has been subjected to a relentless campaign designed to discredit a global anti-capitalist network, relying on fabricated charges that it is somehow involved in "left/right convergence," i.e., cooperation between fascists and leftists. Wikipedia seems vulnerable to that kind of abuse, although a bigger problem is ill-informed people writing about a topic, which happens often enough in the philosophy articles, in my view.)
Having said all of that, I actually feel gratitude for all the work that others do on Wikipedia. As long as one approaches it critically, it is a very positive thing (which is not something I would say about the Toronto Star).
Once again you hit the
Once again you hit the points with accuracy and inspiration. I just wanted to comment that the movements ' built in the face of lying, slander and disinformation from the "news" business', is a particularly keen insight. Sometimes truth resonates with people in ways they don't completely understand. Chomsky would definitely agree that there is a distinct difference between educated intellectual opinion and the opinion of the general public. The masses tend to be much more cynical of elite propaganda.
A new thread
I posted a response HERE in an attempt to fork this discussion away from the discussion of the barnraising idea. If possible, I'd like to preserve this thread for the discussions about a possible collabrative project.
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Mike.
"We only wear black, but that's just until something darker comes along..." -Anonymous Black Bloc Member.
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
barns
I don't know enough on the subject to be a part of writing the article,
however I would love to take part in the "barnraising" etc, and will definitely participate by editing/formatting.
(you know how I love to correct spelling)
-r.
A link to a better description
Here's the link I wanted to put in the post above,,,
MeatBallWiki:BarnRaising
-30-
Mike.
"We only wear black, but that's just until something darker comes along..." -Anonymous Black Bloc Member.
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos